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08:01 darrendraper : Hello Tom
08:03 tom_turner : hey there Darren....sitting in my garage doing a garage sale...this is spectacular
08:03 mjclausen-1 : Is audio working for everyone else? I'm not getting any sound.
08:03 tom_turner : no sound at all here
08:04 kdumont-1 : Not seeing or hearing anything.
08:04 mjclausen-1 : I've got video
08:05 kdumont-2 : Have video on the direct channel, but no audio
08:07 darrendraper : They're working on audio through Ustream.
08:07 mkm420fritz : thanks!
08:08 diane : Is there a list of workshops + the channels they're on?
08:08 diane : Can't hear any sound on Channel 6
08:08 mjclausen-1 : @diane
08:09 kdumont-2 : The channels on the Educon studio page are screwed up.
08:09 diane : Rats, didn't catch that address!
08:09 srolle-1 : Any sound here?
08:09 diane : Not hearing sound on channel 6
08:09 mrsrsscience-1 : No sound
08:10 diane : Can I retrieve old chat?
08:10 diane : Wanted list of workshops + channels but was in transit when it was first sent
08:11 ehelfant :
08:11 diane : Thanks! Who
08:11 diane : Who's in this workshop from my twitterverse?
08:12 ehelfant : think i'll check out another one that has sound..
08:13 fifer1863 : audio issues?
08:13 diane : Me too, thanks fro the wiki link
08:13 diane : No sound
08:14 darrendraper : Professional development is typically:
08:14 darrendraper : Set time
08:14 darrendraper : In a room
08:14 darrendraper : When there's not buy-in it falls apart
08:15 diane : Definitely need stakeholder input
08:15 darrendraper : Presenters don't always impress teachers as much as teachers can impress teachers.
08:15 darrendraper : Credibility gap?
08:15 diane : Reality check
08:16 darrendraper : Outsiders bring in a canned presentation.
08:16 diane : what works with teachers doesn't always translate into classroom success with students?
08:17 mkm420fritz : there needs to be a lot of follow up in the classroom...
08:17 mkm420fritz : sound???? yes!!!
08:17 diane : Sound is on!
08:17 darrendraper : YEAH!
08:17 mkm420fritz : a lot of feedback...
08:18 darrendraper : My Ustream audio is off so it's not me. :)
08:18 mkm420fritz : wow - that was loud...
08:18 diane : Looks like tech heaven, all those laptops!
08:19 mkm420fritz : feedback is much better - almost gone.
08:19 darrendraper : Followup is key.
08:19 diane : Need some space for mistakes to encourage teachers to take risks
08:20 mkm420fritz : more than just one time. it needs to be constantly revisited with support
08:20 diane : And positive reinforcement when something succeeds
08:20 diane : Don't punish the risk-takers and innovators
08:20 mkm420fritz : that's where community building is so important
08:21 diane : Internal + online PLN
08:22 darrendraper : Sometimes bringing in an outsider helps.
08:22 mkm420fritz : yes - but connections have to be made so that it's not out of context....followup!!!
08:22 diane : As long as suggestions can be tailored for the specific needs of a district
08:23 diane : Too many one-shot expert workshops!
08:23 darrendraper : Sometimes professional developers need to validate themselves before they can reach their audience.
08:23 darrendraper : Students need to be more self-directed.
08:23 darrendraper : My question: should't TEACHERS be self-directed in THEIR learning?
08:24 diane : Staff needs to know internal support system e.g. Librarian!
08:24 diane : Our district doesn't reward own time learning; do it anyway
08:24 IDanceForGod-1 : I agree...staff need to know the resources available, including people.
08:24 darrendraper : Well said, IDance!
08:25 diane : And "resources" need to be given some time to assist others
08:25 IDanceForGod-1 : Thanks....I'm watching via UStream, and I lost the sound....any clues about that?
08:25 diane : I stiil have sound
08:25 IDanceForGod-1 : oh, there it is!
08:26 ehelfant : teachers should be self directed in their learning but often aren't and with tech, don't know how to be
08:26 mkm420fritz : you said it ehelfant....they don't know what's out there
08:26 ehelfant : have to teach mine to be self or group directed
08:26 diane : What is the responsibility of administration to be tech literate?
08:27 diane : If they're not on board, everything is slowed down
08:27 IDanceForGod-1 : I think it's idealistic for administration to be fully tech literate...but if they have the interest, encourage it!
08:27 darrendraper : Good question, diane!
08:27 mkm420fritz : they need to know what to look for and model its' use!
08:27 ehelfant : admin has to at least be conceptually aware of tech potential even if they can't do a wiki
08:27 IDanceForGod-1 : That doesn't mean they can't support it
08:27 diane : Exactly, reward initiative, encourage exploration and experimentation
08:28 kassissieh-1 : Admins need to understand enough about the tech to know its implications for teaching & learning.
08:28 mkm420fritz : yes - content first!!!
08:28 IDanceForGod-1 : Definitely, I agree!
08:28 diane : Always have to keep in mind: tools support content
08:29 ehelfant : admin needs to support curriculum revision and encourgage that revision to include the instructional tech person and the librarian..
08:29 ehelfant : we seem to make lots of progress withthat approach
08:29 IDanceForGod-1 : So how do we get the admin on board?
08:29 mkm420fritz : all stakeholders - it's a systemic problem...needs systemic leadership!
08:29 diane : Showcase successes: parent buy-in + admin support
08:30 diane : PR is important
08:30 ehelfant : right diane.. a really good well highlighted success gets losts of mileage
08:30 IDanceForGod-1 : Good ideas, I need to use some of those in my district.
08:30 diane : Picture in the paper = kudos from Super
08:31 diane : Yes, I'm here on my own time.
08:31 IDanceForGod-1 : Me too :-)
08:31 diane : Going to NECC on my own time and money. Super not impressed I'll be on a panel
08:32 darrendraper : Compulsory education...
08:32 diane : Still have to do compulsory written PD piece
08:32 ehelfant : we took away the mandatory training in favor or a training portfolio
08:32 diane : Bottom line is a lack of trust in our professionalism
08:33 IDanceForGod-1 : Do you mean that we don't trust other professionals or we don't trust ourselves?
08:34 kdumont-2 : Responsibility outweighs the actual practice.
08:34 diane : I mean that admin & BOE don't trust teachers to development at their own pace in their own style
08:34 IDanceForGod-1 : Got it....yes, I think that's right.
08:35 diane : meant "develop"
08:35 diane : Learning doesn't take place on a schedule
08:36 diane : My life and my network is my learning venue
08:36 IDanceForGod-1 : True...and I can't see how that would work in an elementary school....who covers the class during all that planning and PD?
08:36 darrendraper : Built in time is WONDERFUL when teachers and admins take advantage of it.
08:37 kdumont-2 : Elementary schools will find the time if it is important to the principals and teachers.
08:37 diane : My principals don't want too much "non pupil contact time" plus I have to cover teacher planning time
08:37 darrendraper : Self-directed learning...
08:38 diane : Teachers who aren't learners are one-dimensional
08:38 IDanceForGod-1 : I have "specials" to cover too...I guess I'm just not seeing how another way could work in K-5
08:38 darrendraper : Amen, Diane.
08:38 darrendraper : Yes, face time is valuable.
08:38 diane : As the sole K-12 librarian, my colleagues are all virtual
08:39 IDanceForGod-1 : Face-to-face contact is important's easier to miscommunicate virtually.
08:39 diane : But the teachers are not concerned with the same issues that I am
08:40 diane : They don't want innovation - out of their comfort zone
08:42 diane : Those who are willing to try new things get frustrated with lack of equipment
08:43 thegilch-1 : I see that frustration often as well, Diana
08:43 thegilch-1 : oops, Diane
08:43 diane : Don't usually like mandates, but need some equalization of curriculum and resources nation-wide
08:44 thegilch-1 : agrees, something that provides tech and innovation across the board
08:44 thegilch-1 : why isn't that a mandate of NCLB?
08:44 diane : No child should be penalized because of where they live
08:44 thegilch-1 : **playing devil's advocate
08:44 IDanceForGod-1 : The SKILLS Act is up for vote soon.
08:44 diane : Right - there is a tech component to NCLB that is largely ignored
08:45 IDanceForGod-1 : If it's part of NCLB, then libraries will get a boost at least
08:45 thegilch-1 : ignored and unfunded
08:45 IDanceForGod-1 : fair point
08:45 IDanceForGod-1 : But if it's supported and enforced, it could be effective.
08:45 thegilch-1 : I think "enforced" is the key word
08:46 thegilch-1 : int he words of Bonnie Raitt, I can't make you love me if you don't
08:46 diane : Many educators say library is heart of the school, but do they really believe it?
08:46 thegilch-1 : the more people feel forced to do something, the more they shut it out
08:46 diane : Our school is focused on mandated tests. All else is secondary
08:47 thegilch-1 : I do, Diane, but we have a media specialist who is also our tech specialist and she ensures that our library is balanced with digital and paper media
08:47 diane : My job isn't viewed that we. We have an IT who is hardware focused, no educational technologist on board
08:47 diane : viewed that way
08:48 diane : On the teacher level, there are many full minds not ready to be opened
08:48 thegilch-1 : My question in relation to sessions, and conversations like this one, is how many participants are in the decision making realm of education? Do decision makers even know that there are conversations out here like this that they can draw statistics, experience, research, etc, to put into action?
08:49 diane : to new ideas
08:49 diane : Afraid you've got a very valid point. We're preaching to the choir here.
08:49 thegilch-1 : we're building a revolution, of sorts, maybe
08:49 diane : And the choir has no real power.
08:50 darrendraper : Presentation link:
08:50 thegilch-1 : the power of voice, diane
08:50 thegilch-1 : thanks darren
08:50 diane : I'll be retiring soon and fighting in the revolution from another direction
08:50 darrendraper : Or here:
08:51 thegilch-1 : I was in conversations like this one several times over the past few days at FETC
08:51 thegilch-1 : very eye opening
08:51 thegilch-1 : how do we harness the power of the whole without alienating those who will take more time to get on board>
08:51 diane : Do you find these conferences empowering or frustrating, as the reality of your actual job kicks in
08:52 thegilch-1 : totally empowering
08:52 diane : Good for you!
08:52 IDanceForGod-1 : I think it's some of's inspiring to be reminded of our potential
08:52 IDanceForGod-1 : but frustrating when you see the budget numbers
08:53 diane : I'm too impatient, I guess. Too old to wait for evolution, need the revolution!
08:53 thegilch-1 : yes, that too IDance...
08:53 thegilch-1 : but, I am totally aware of how fortunate I am to be at a hi-tech center, and have an amazing admin
08:53 diane : So sad that's not the norm
08:54 thegilch-1 : we hope that it will be, before it's outdated
08:54 thegilch-1 : :-)
08:54 diane : Time, time, time...
08:54 thegilch-1 : but, Steve Dembo said something that I found enlightening
08:54 IDanceForGod-1 : I'm also pretty fortunate....but even in my district, there's a lot of inequities.
08:54 IDanceForGod-1 : That's what I fight for
08:55 IDanceForGod-1 : or against rather...oops
08:55 diane : Still comes back to admin. buy- in. No instructional coaches in our district
08:55 thegilch-1 : that we are only recognized professionally for the "hours" we spend following a program for PD, not the true hours we spend building networks and learning and using and trying new things
08:55 thegilch-1 : like this...
08:56 thegilch-1 : I got wat you meant, IDance
08:56 diane : I wish we were valued for our desire and our skills
08:56 thegilch-1 : same in our district, large gap between the haves and have nots
08:56 thegilch-1 : but I am at a magnet school, my only wish is that all kids had access to the potential we create, not just 150 per year
08:56 darrendraper : Key word: change
08:57 diane : Change in procedure will come with change in attitude
08:57 thegilch-1 : bravo, DIane
08:57 diane : Not even all of the students desire change
08:57 thegilch-1 : change in attitude from the bottom up and the top down
08:58 diane : Gave a BOE presentation and they were blown away. Absolutely no change in my duties or resources reaulted.
08:58 diane : resulted
08:59 diane : Teachers see this kind of change as an add-on, more work, no reward
08:59 thegilch-1 : for the most part, yes
08:59 thegilch-1 : I agree
09:00 diane : And God help them if experimentation results in lower ELA scores!
09:00 itoldja : fear of the unknown...
09:00 diane : Used to be experts, not co-learners
09:00 IDanceForGod-1 : Going back to the contracts thing...I think teachers will try it if they are paid to try it....less risk
09:01 thegilch-1 : true, and I get so frustrated with educators who don't see the value of this in ELL education
09:01 IDanceForGod-1 : my district offers "workshops" for tech that count as pay for's amazing how motivating that is. :-)
09:02 thegilch-1 : that is good, IDance, in my dist, they stopped doing it because "they" think teachers use it to milk the dist for $$, which is very sad
09:02 diane : However we reel them in, some will stay with it once they actually try some new tools
09:02 diane : "Our" time doesn't seem valuable to them
09:02 IDanceForGod-1 : Yeah, I know some teachers who do that...but they still learn something despite their ulterior motives.
09:04 thegilch-1 : true, IDance
09:06 thegilch-1 : ooooohhhhh, good buzzword, shared aspirations
09:06 thegilch-1 : I think that;s a key
09:06 IDanceForGod-1 : Maybe a key to getting teacher buy-in is to save them time....
09:07 IDanceForGod-1 : because in the end, if they save time, that's almost as good as paying them.
09:07 thegilch-1 : yes, I think it all comes down to simplicity
09:07 thegilch-1 : simplifying our approach, our process, and our expectations
09:07 IDanceForGod-1 : PD as time-savers, maybe?
09:07 IDanceForGod-1 : make their lives simpler
09:08 thegilch-1 : and we all benefit from that
09:09 thegilch-1 : if everyone's lives are simpler, if we all share the same common goal, shared aspirations, then all our lives are simpler and we can focus on our true challenge
09:09 IDanceForGod-1 : ohh...I LIKE that!
09:10 thegilch-1 : ty :-) I come up with good ones once in a while
09:10 sroseman : testing 1 2 3
09:10 thegilch-1 : or at least I try to, though I am usually just humoring myself
09:10 thegilch-1 : going back to something someone said earlier, that even students don't want change
09:11 thegilch-1 : I see that at the HS level ALOT
09:11 IDanceForGod-1 : Yeah, change is always tough.
09:11 IDanceForGod-1 : I think it goes back to "selling" it as something that will help them.
09:11 thegilch-1 : they have been so conditioned to certain things, that change really spins them out, and they don't know how to handle it
09:12 thegilch-1 : for instance, TEST PREP
09:12 thegilch-1 : ugh!
09:12 thegilch-1 : actually was told by a sophmore last semester that I was doing nothing to prepare them for FCAT
09:12 thegilch-1 : because I wasn't doing sample test questions every day
09:13 thegilch-1 : double UGH!
09:13 IDanceForGod-1 : Even at elem. we do PSSA prep sessions....not fun at ALL!
09:15 thegilch-1 : but even more, how does that benefit kids? How does it add to their education or development?
09:16 IDanceForGod-1 : It doesn't....but while the tests are required, it's a necessary evil...with the emphasis on "evil." :-)
09:17 thegilch-1 : true, it's our reality, but it doesn't teach them to adapt
09:18 thegilch-1 : I prep them for the test by having them read a novel, and then blog their literary analyisis, and then discuss each others' responses
09:18 thegilch-1 : same skill
09:18 IDanceForGod-1 : Well then you're killing two birds with one're combining 21st century skills instruction with test prep
09:20 thegilch-1 : getting others to see the value
09:20 thegilch-1 : tell people about what you're doing
09:20 thegilch-1 : show your enthusiasm, and tell about how it helps your practice
09:21 thegilch-1 : they will catch on
09:21 IDanceForGod-1 : Yes, just like with collaborating on instruction...if one teacher does it, others will say "how did you do that?" And that's more business for the library.
09:26 IDanceForGod-1 : Sounds like the training needs to come first, or it needs to be simultaneous with PD
09:26 chellouise : interesting conversation
09:26 darrendraper : This has been an amazing conversation!
09:27 chellouise : I think teaching HOW to do something (like a presentation) should come first, then maybe some training on a specific application. What do you think?
09:29 IDanceForGod-1 : Yes, I think that's what I meant by simultaneous....because they blend together so easily when you are using a specific application.
09:31 thegilch-1 : I have so enjoyed this, but I am off to see the manatees, perfect day for it here in SW FL
09:31 thegilch-1 : have a fab day everyone!
09:32 IDanceForGod-1 : You as well! Enjoy the sunshine!
09:33 IDanceForGod-1 : Thanks everyone for chatting!
09:33 darrendraper : Great work, chatters! Thanks for joining in!
09:34 dwaltman : hello brian smith